Posts by Separation of Powers

28

What other ancient Greek Manuscripts contained the divine name?

by yaddayadda in

the society in appendix 1a of their 'kingdom interlinear translation of the christian greek scriptures' refers to nine other greek manuscripts as containing the divine name, and they quote from jerome as referring to certain 'greek volumes' containing the tetragrammaton.

can anyone shed any light on what these greek manuscripts and volumes are and their dates of writing?

here is what the society says in full: .

Separation of Powers

Sorry I posted 6 years late...

There are no greek manuscripts of the new testament that date to the original period of the 1st century. Any manuscript that contains the Tetragramaton would date centuries later. To use the LXX or Septuagint as the basis for reinserting the "name" into the new testament is not supported by the majority of scholars. Why? Because they are two separate and distinct works for one, written by two different groups of people with a different perspective and purpose.

Some would state that to insert the "name" into the New Testament, except only in cases where it may appear in the LXX as a direct quote is a cause for concern.

SOP

31

What Is The "Typical" Elder In The Organization Like Now?

by minimus in

jw
friends

when i was an elder, most of the elders were pretty independent 40 to 80 year olds.

they had no issue speaking up to the circuit overseer.

i wonder what the average elder is like now.

Separation of Powers

I can't speak for everyone else, but I find them to be distant and uncaring. Sure, they get up and give their parts, most of which are a simple rehash of the information as most of them appear to have poor study skills and simply don't care about the deeper things. Shepherding is non-existent except for the sister with the unbelieving mate who is always making the phone call. The kids are utterly abandoned as most elders don't even bother validating their existence. The only, and I mean only time that there is a visible measure of effort is when the CO is coming.

It is a sad reflection of the loss of faith and postponed expectation, the lack of appreciation for their efforts and the guilt that most feel thinking about leaving the post or the obvious repercussions that they would expect from the gossiping group if they ever did. It is all about going through the motions.

SOP

10

What course are you on?

by Separation of Powers in

jw
friends

reading julia's comment about how she and her husband have become the epitome of evil (lol) moved me to post.

i have several family members and close friends that have faded or simply walked away.

each of them has chosen a different course.

Separation of Powers

Reading Julia's comment about how she and her husband have become the epitome of evil (LOL) moved me to post. I have several family members and close friends that have faded or simply walked away. Each of them has chosen a different course. Some have embraced a more "liberal" lifestyle with its accompanying "partying" and such. Kinda like they wanted to make up for the "lost time" they experienced in their youth.

Others have continued in the spiritual journey looking for God in some other place than the KH, embracing another set of rigid rules and hoping for a different experience.

Others, like the Orwells, have chosen to just enjoy life while apparently maintaining a measure of, I don't know, a modicum of decorum.

Whatever the case, we all choose our own paths after the departure. I, for one, am transitioning from the rigidity to a simpler perspective on life and what it means. I know that is a simplistic description, but it is the only way to adjust to reality.

What has been your experience with the path you have chosen? and Why did you choose it?

SOP

122

Do You Regard President Obama In The Same Way As You Did BEFORE The Election?

by minimus in

jw
friends

lately, even late night comedians are starting to make fun of the president.. i hear more negatives about the president than ever before---even from his own voters.. (i had high hopes for him when he beat mccain but since then, i believe the president has been a huge disappointment)..

Separation of Powers

All I can say is, "The Audacity"

SOP

165

Board of bitterness

by 1009 in

i always was a critical jw, now df and agnost.

but still this religion fascinates me.

in my eyes most jw are very sincere, but dumb sheep.. this board is filled with ex-jw.

Separation of Powers

I have read many post on this forum and found that very few people are truly "bitter." Some simply want to share their experience and reflect on how it has affected their lives. Others vent, sure, but they are content with where they are in life. Others, well, others cannot get past their experience. I, for one, do not blame them.

It is akin to a romantic relationship, an "all-in" relationship where you put your heart on the line. When it ends, some say, "well, if that person doesn't love me anymore, than I will move on. I would rather be happy alone then miserable with someone." Others might say, "There is no way that you are going to leave me without regretting it! I will make your life miserable!" Same relationship, same scenario, different perception, different reaction.

Anyone raised in or around the organization is expected to be "all in." It affects every aspect of your life and every decision you make. When you find that it's time to leave, or it has left you, than your reaction will be just that....a reaction, your reaction. No one on this forum can take that away from you cause it is "your experience." To question the validity or basis of your reaction, to condemn or demean it whether calm or bitter, is to devalue your unique experience... and no one...no one has that right.

SOP

64

2 she-bears kill 42 children

by confusedandalone in

jw
friends

we all remember this passage vividly: from there elisha went up to bethel.

while he was on his way, some small boys came out of the city and jeered at him.

"go up baldhead," they shouted, "go up baldhead!

Separation of Powers

One of the most horrifying accounts I can recall from my childhood, listening to a CO as he spoke to the young people about this account and our need to respect the "arrangement." The main point I remember from his talk, and mind you this was close to 40 years ago, was that these 42 rebellious, obnoxious, and disrespectful children were the kids of the elite "sons of the Prophets" mentioned in 2 Kings. He went on to drive home the point to the elders in the congregation that they needed to really keep a tight rein on their kids lest they become like these 42 and Jehovah decides to destroy them in the same brutal manner cause "they should know better than others in the hall!"

What a childhood! From the Paradise Book with people falling in caverns that God's wrath creates and Nimrod looking all freakey evil on his throne to talks like that....you gotta love it!

SOP

21

The Fake "Joy" Of Jehovah's Witnesses

by minimus in

jw
friends

do you observe this "joy" when you see witnesses going from house to house, in the kingdom halls, out working, or during theocratic wholesome recreational activities?.

.

Separation of Powers

I have always appreciated the organization's position that "joy" is an outward expression of an internal condition. If that is the case, then there sure are a lot of people who need to have their "innards" checked! I have not seen any evidence of "joy" for quite some time, and those that profess to be "joyful" are as duplicitous and disingenuous as they come! A false joy is simply evidence of a false hope!

SOP

26

No more district assemblies in Tri-Cities. News article

by Indian Larry in

for years the christian congregation of jehovah's witnesses has held a regional convention in the tri-cities, attracting about 16,000 of the faithful who spend an estimated $8.6 million while in town.. .

but they won't be coming in 2014.. "what they told me is the decision has been made nationally to downsize the number of conventions from 400 to 100. they're simply consolidating," said kris watkins, president and ceo of the tri-cities visitor & convention bureau in kennewick.. .

read more here: http://www.tri-cityherald.com/2013/08/01/2500842/jehovahs-witnesses-convention.html#storylink=cpy .

Separation of Powers

Good point Sir82 My comment refers to the current District Convention arrangement being phased out. If the information provided by the source, i.e. that the process will go from 400 to 100 is true, than there is something to the economic aspect of the process which, according to your position, doesn't add up. If the current district convention arrangement is the single biggest money maker, which I believe was the case many years ago, than if would be the epitome of foolishness to ever mess with it! If, however, the intent is to rein in the process, i.e. minimize the amount of venues that have to be acquired and paid for and utilize only Society owned facilities, than how would one go about meeting that need. Currently, most circuit assembly venues are booked from September through May-June. The current process does not afford enough time in the calendar to address the addition of another round of district conventions to be held in those facilities. The math does not add up. With regard to contributions on the district level, what was once a good 100K per assembly is considerably lower...considerably. The inability to charge for parking was the first hit. Additionally, the presence of debit and credit card contributions is testament as well as this capability went against the prior mentality of ensuring that the public did not feel "compelled" to give. Now, however, the lack of contributions has required that adjustments be made. SOP

26

No more district assemblies in Tri-Cities. News article

by Indian Larry in

for years the christian congregation of jehovah's witnesses has held a regional convention in the tri-cities, attracting about 16,000 of the faithful who spend an estimated $8.6 million while in town.. .

but they won't be coming in 2014.. "what they told me is the decision has been made nationally to downsize the number of conventions from 400 to 100. they're simply consolidating," said kris watkins, president and ceo of the tri-cities visitor & convention bureau in kennewick.. .

read more here: http://www.tri-cityherald.com/2013/08/01/2500842/jehovahs-witnesses-convention.html#storylink=cpy .

Separation of Powers

Consolidating 400 to 100 seems like a logistical nightmare! Assuming that 5000 people attend each assembly, that would total about 2 million people for the 400 assemblies, oh excuse me, conventions. If those 2 million people were "consolidated" to 100 conventions, that would require a venue that could accommodate 20 thousand people! That, my friends, is a huge crowd, reminiscent of the pre-78 conventions. What a nightmare! If this is true, then the conventions are not bringing in the contributions to justify the effort. The current convention strategy is smaller, less active venues, where 4-7 thousand can attend. They are typically held in summer months when business conventions are in "sleep mode" and when the only real competition for space is boat shows, tattoo expos, gun shows or home and garden events. Therefore, the venues can be acquired for less than top dollar. I am expecting that the district convention arrangement will be phased out. Yes, it will be done in the spirit of simplification. It is too time consuming for the teaching committee and the return on the investment is simply not there. With the new and improved website, any new publications will be presented, or better still, at the circuit assembly where trucking and delivery concerns, venue, and accessible debit or credit card machines are available. SOP

27

How To Be Subversive While Knowing TTATT And Stuck Inside The Watchtower Corporation Confines?

by frankiespeakin in

jw
friends

so you found out it is all bs but due to family and friends you don't want to be disfellowshipped and shunned.

you have to go to these rediculous meetings maybe even engage in corporation sponsored magazine drives to get the propaganda into the homes of your neighbor in hopes of making another corporation zombie mystified by childish magical thinking, of a jealous deity that wants you to work for the corporation finacial interest or else die for your lack of corporation loyalty.. it is a stressful sitiuation with all kinds of trip wires one has to beware of in order not to be heading into some back room kangaroo court where obediance to the almighty corporation is the bottom line, and a fair hearing of the facts is last on the list of importance.. one consolation is that one may eventually get friends and family out of this demanding and destructive cult with patients and passage of time.. so what ideas would you like to pass on to readers?

what are some of subversive activities one can engage in while stuck in this nasty bit of mandatory corporation exercises of preaching, selling, and building?.

Separation of Powers

Well, if you mean "subversive" in the sense of undermining, then I would say the best thing you can do is absolutely nothing!

There is nothing more powerful than your absence, particularly if you are or were a mainstay of the congregation.

With your disappearance comes questions. With your continued disappearance comes conjecture and supposition.

Some, some will say what you will expect, "they were weak," "there was always something about that person," " they are materialistic."

But others, others will reflect on the reality of your absence particularly if you continue being the same old lovable person you are. They will wonder just why you disappeared. Yes, they may say or audibly agree with the conjecture and supposition, but inside, deep inside they are asking themselves questions, first about you....then about themselves.

Subversion at its best!

SOP